Hardie.....I couldnt reply in the other section! :D

There have been so many changes, that for me it would be hard to say which are 'corrupt' and which are the product of healthy debate.
I agree. although by aplying the buddhs study methd comparing word by word suta by sutta it might not be imposible to find the corruped ones.

But for me the corruption really begins when Buddhism goes to the West and tries to win converts there
I dont agree here. I think corruption started way before the west. the early changes in interpretation and discipline and the status of the ractice in asian countries show the opposite imo.

Then all of a sudden all you hear about is LOVE, something the Buddha himself rarely mentioned, and of course--forgiveness.
totally agree!!! new age has come its long way into the dharma
I want the real thing first, then if I want to mix it with Christianity, at least I'll know that is the case.
hard to find, IMO, the real thing now. If you look only at the bodhirajakumara suta, the prince bodhi, you find how many crucial advices by the Buddha have been forgoten. I think there is way to much importane given to the commentaries and later teachers than the sopposedly Buddha´s own words.

Thanks a lot for your feedback Hardie. Where are you now? maybe we can connect on facebook or something like that...i went to IBC sadao last year...planning to maybe go back soon

best wishes!

Earl Hardie Karges's picture

Corruption of dharma, etc.

Hi again! Thanks for the response. I guess I'm not totally comfortable with the concept of 'corruption', since by most accounts the Buddhist dharma is open and evolving, as it should be, I feel, BUT...

I'm of two minds here. On the one hand, I want to know exactly what the Buddha said, and what he meant, but on the other hand, I don't want to be bound by it, especially when it gets into areas where it really shouldn't be IMHO, e.g. explaining the nature of the physical world, 'conventional reality' if you prefer, which is the job of science in the modern world, religion better at articulating the role of humans in that world...

And apparently even the Pali Canon was filtered through the opinions of scribes and pundits, so any claim to Buddha's exact words are a best guess, if even that, so I guess all we can do is to try to read the Buddha's mind and intentions, then up-date it as best we can for modern circumstances. That's what I'm trying to do. I persevere...

You were at Sadao IBC last year? I may have seen you on my brief visit almost a year ago exactly. I attended there last semester, before deciding I'd rather study online, to better fit my lifestyle. I'm in and around Asia mostly, Cambodia now. FB sounds good, at least until I go to China next year, if that actually happens. I don't see your name right here, so any friend request on my part would take time, but you've got mine, and not too many like it. C U there. Nice chatting, Hardie Karges

p.s. I do agree that too much importance may be given to random commentaries, but some of the later work by Nagarjuna, etc. is crucial to Mahayana, and Zen, which is where my interests are evolving. Comparing lines sutra by sutra sounds like a genome project, ha! That approach would only work if the original were unquestionably accurate, of course, good luck with that!